The short answer is yes. Second to this, lens hoods can help to protect your lenses from damage. I find the hood invaluable for keeping moisture off the front element as well as the obvious flare resistance. They can be metal, plastic, or even rubber. There’s a reddish flare in the dark area at the very bottom of the first image, which is gone in the second. Why Are Many Lens Hoods Shaped so Funny? This is the exact situation that light flares are most common. Many photographers mistakenly believe that a lens hood is merely there to make the camera look more professional. If you’re shooting at night near a light source like a street lamp. Test this theory yourself by shooting the same scene with and without a hood, just be sure to keep your exposure settings exactly the same and then compare the two photos side by side. If this is what you’re trying to achieve, then now go ahead and photoshoot hood-less! You want a flare effect. You can test it yourself by tilting the lens with and without the hood. And I can attest that the lens coatings are very tough, I’ll say virtually scratch resistant. However, some lens hoods simply fit around your camera via soft rubber. One good method is to remove all your lens hoods and stack them within each other. A hood ensures your lens is protected from all these damages. The intended purpose of the lens hood is simply to reduce lens flare, but the protection it provides to the glass elements of the lens is a beneficial side-effect. If you’re shooting near a strong light source, such as an off-camera flash, that might cause a lens flare. Or, maybe you have watched a J.J. Abrams movie! But it is s telescopic design, meaning a very low profile when on. Lens Hoods Block Unwanted Light A lens hood acts like a visor, blocking strong light from entering the lens from an angle. When a lens hood comes into play, you're looking at a tough shot anyway. In the comparison photos above, the difference isn’t just that the second photo has less flare. I measured this in our optics lab. I observed some vignetting from a loose lens shade on my Nikkor 20mm f/1.8. Seamless transfer of images and movies from your Canon camera to your devices and web services. The main purpose of a lens hood is to reduce the possibility of lens flare. Whether you are new to photography or a seasoned photographer, lens hoods can inspire many questions. Lens hoods that are supplied by the manufacturer of the lens are often designed to fit onto the matching lens facing either forward, for normal use, or backwards, so that the hood may be stored with the lens without occupying much additional space. Any time you might want to protect your lens, such as when shooting animals up close or photographing in inclement weather. In this photography tutorial, I’m going to explain everything you need to know about Lens hoods. But you should at least use yours under certain shooting conditions such as these: Despite all the great reasons to leave a lens hood on your camera, there are times when you’ll want to take it off: As you can tell from this guide, your lens hood is much more than just a good-looking accessory! Camera sensors are rectangular in shape, so petal hoods block every bit of ambient light. So, next time when you are doing photography, especially against sunlight, use a lens hood. An added benefit of using a lens hood is that it serves as an added layer of protection for the front lens element. Tulip lens hoods are for wide angle lenses and typically you’ll get a tulip style lens hood when you purchase a wide angle zoom. Square-cut lens hood. The only damage was some scrapes to the lens hood, no damage whatsoever to the lens or the camera. These type of lens hood are also referred to as tulip or flower lens hood. Whether it be at a concert, event, or a busy city street, a lens hood helps to keep your lens protects from people around you. The primary use for a lens hood is to prevent light from hitting the front lens element from the sides - reducing contrast and creating flare. Personally, the graduated neutral density filter kit I sometimes use for landscape photography doesn’t allow me to use a lens hood. With wide angle lenses that use shallower lens hoods you don’t even need to remove the lens hood to put on, adjust or remove a filter. 2. While you might like to have some amount of lens flare for artistic purposes, too much of it can be distracting. This guide will help you understand what a lens hood is for, go over the different types, and describe when — and when not — to use one. As I mentioned in my previous post, the consensus is to use a lens hood to help avoid bumping the actual camera lens into things when you’re in the studio, field or where ever you take your photos. Do you recommend a petal lens or a cylindrical lens hood? When you’re using certain filters or ring lights that block you from attaching your lens hood. camera lens hoods. Its a clever construction and also reduces the risk of touching the lens significantly. 2. Below, I’ll cover some more specific information about the benefits of lens hoods, including sample photos taken with and without a hood. I’ve even seen people leave their lens hoods at home so they can save a bit of weight and bulk for long backpacking trips, opting to block the sun with their hand instead. Once you start to see the benefits of having a hood on your lens, you won’t see them as a useless waste of space, but essential components of your camera kit. Luckily my lens hood was on and the camera fell on it. The good news is that lens hoods can help – though, granted, only if the source of light is outside your frame. 4.2 out of 5 stars 2,654. Types of lens hoods . The sun is beating down hard and you’re having a bit of trouble seeing clearly, so you hold your hand up to your forehead in an effort to block the light. 1. With the high-functionality afforded by lenses these days, probably the biggest reason for using a lens hood is this — to protect the lens. Aside from using a lens hood, here are other ways to block stray light: 1. They also improve the overall contrast and colors in a photo. Any time your subject is backlit (for example when you are shooting backlit during golden hour ), or you are shooting into or near strong sunlight, you are bound to get a lens flare. Another alternative is simply to reverse the hood on your particular lens. Taking pictures with a cracked, scratched, a finger-printed lens can be cumbersome. The best advice is to pop the hood on the lens and never take it off. Not all lenses come with a hood. A lens hood that screws into the threads of your camera lens will more than likely not support a polarizing filter—the threads will be in use, thereby giving your filter nowhere to screw into. Some photographers leave their lens hoods on their cameras at all times, which is fine. Sometimes the lens flare produces exciting patterns, which adds to the beauty of the scene. If the accessory is crucial for the photo you want, just go ahead and use it; chances are good that your photos won’t be ruined by flare when you do, so long as you’re careful. The hood can add several inches to the front of your camera, so many. This is not the first time I have visited this subject but I think a quick demonstration was in order. Aside from some wide angle lenses where it’s built in, nearly every hood on the market can be reversed for transportation, making it look something like this: Although that’s a bit bulkier than the lens on its own, it’s not bad. Here is a rundown of what lens hoods are, what they are designed for, as well as when (and how) you should use them. Job done! You don’t block any light this way, and it doesn’t protect the front element of the lens much at all. Canon EW-63C lens hood for EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM objective. I’m surprised I’ve only had to replace it once. When to Use a Lens Hood. The shadows in the second image are darker because they aren’t washed out. Just to name one benefit, they can make a major difference in a picture’s image quality. If it’s rotated incorrectly, you’ll probably end up capturing part of the hood in your photo: Round hoods have a simpler design, although they generally aren’t quite as effective. My photos have been displayed in galleries worldwide, including the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History and exhibitions in London, Malta, Siena, and Beijing. Photography forums to discuss digital photography, film photography, photographers, techniques and cameras and equipment, along with advice on buying and using cameras. I agree with all of this except one thing, when using the niffty fifty and it starts to spit or rain lightly and I can’t get my camera into a bag I’ll reverse the hood and that’ll cover most of the lens and keep any water off. They serve a few purposes: To minimize flare: Much like a visor works for shading bright light so your eyes can see better, the main purpose of using a lens hood is to block unwanted light from entering your lens, thereby reducing the amount of lens flare and glare that shows up in your image. Available models. If you notice that you’re getting a lot of glare in a certain frame, change the composition. The metal hood has pinch points to pull out the this when needed. A Lens Hood should be mounted to keep extraneous light from entering the lens on backlit shots. You might reconsider the angle of your light. When using your camera in bright light or sunshine, a lens hood is an essential accessory for your camera. It Minimizes Flare. Pictures taken with a lens hood installed can have richer colors and deeper saturation. Great article, Spencer, and I agree with all. While that is a bonus of using one, they are about much more than looks! If that’s the case for you, is it worth spending money to buy a lens hood separately? Indoors it’s also important to use a lens hood, because you can get flare from window light, studio lights or lamps. Here are two example photos side by side, taken without a lens hood (on the left) and with one (on the right). This allows you to control lens flares and maintain clarity and contrast in your images, even on bright days. The main reason for using a lens hood is to block light from flooding your lens and creating lens flare so you can capture the best photos. Fuji on the other hand includes generally rubbish ones in the box. Broke the hood mount but glass didnt. If you have the Nikon 800mm f/5.6 lens, I hope you don’t lose its hood. Preventing Lens Flare. Do you recommend a petal lens or a cylindrical lens hood? Lens hoods are generally strong and stick out from the lens some distance. A WP Chill product. During shooting it would rotate ever so slightly and unnoticeably. Neither. Used properly, they never hurt your image quality. Aside from image quality, the other main purpose of a lens hood is to help protect your lens from bumps, scratches, fingerprints, and other sources of damage. Also, note that hoods on zoom lenses are only tailored to the widest focal length of the lens (for the most part). Best lens hoods I’ve used were on Pentax primes. Good filters are expensive and front elements often don’t cost all that much time and money to replace, sometimes less than one or two top quality UV filters over the life of a lens. Although lens flare can look good when you’re aboard the starship Enterprise, it’s usually something you want to avoid in everyday photography. So, even if you don’t notice a strong glare with your naked eye, be assured that a lens with a hood will still produce images with better color and contrast than a lens without one. If you actually take pictures when it’s backwards, you’ll look like you don’t know what’s going on. Using a lens hood will help to make reduce the amount of precipitation that lands on your lens. You can use a lens hood at any time of the day and in most shooting situations. In fact, there are even a few situations where using a lens hood can become more of a hindrance than anything else. You should be able to see a noticeable difference. (There are some specialized hoods available for filter kits like this, but they tend to be far too expensive – $200 for the one from Lee Filters, for example.). Apart from the main damages, a hood also protects the lens from debris such as dust, snow or rain. This is a perfect time for a lens hood. This is most commonly the case when you’re using a lens meant for smaller-sensor cameras, such as a Nikon DX lens on an FX camera. Last day of my holiday… my camera was in my hand and I dropped it of course. Sep 14, 2020 #14 My default is to use the hood. Also, it is nice to have a lens hood for protection of the lens. 1. I've recently changed from screw in filters to the circular Kase magnetic ones, which I love. Now, you know, what does a lens hood do and why you should use one. Using a lens hood to let in the light you want and block out the light you don’t will cause your photos to be clearer and have brighter colors. The original lens hood (and much cheaper knock off ones) reduce the angle of direct false light by about 50 degrees which is a lot and very helpful. I never know when I will be shooting a backlit scene, and if it happens, it’s good to … 4.4 out of 5 stars 3,601. My lens fell to the floor. What about indoors? This is especially true if you are using a telephoto lens. When the hood blocks your built-in flash. Different types. But that’s the most important thing to know: Use a lens hood whenever possible to get more durability and flare resistance. The main purpose of a lens hood is to reduce the possibility of lens flare. Personally, when I do landscape photography in windy environments without direct sunlight, I tend to shoot without a lens hood. Would have been interesting to include in the article what the strengths and weaknesses of square lens hood are. Fishboy1952 Active member. These days I'm active on Instagram and YouTube. It can lead to poor shots. It is a few rubber collapsable lens hoods for any lenses that have a 58mm diameter. This might sound silly, but don’t take pictures when your lens hood is reversed! Sometime it just gets bashed agaiinst walls but one of my cameras, with a battery grip and a 2.8 70-200 on it, fell to the ground when my camera strap broke. Lens was WR too. This allows for more light to get in as well as lessen the chance of the lens hood being in the picture, as might happen with the round hood. I just slipped and fell some days ago. When buying a bicycle lock the price is set at 10% of the bicycle price. Since a 24mm on a 1.6X APS-C crop body has the same field of view as a 40mm lens on FF, it's the same hood that fits the other Canon pancake lens, the EF 40mm f/2.8 STM. The main reason for using a lens hood is to reduce the amount of incoming light. This is not the first time I have visited this subject but I think a quick demonstration was in order. The only drawback of this setup is the need for a separate lens hood for each lens, which can add (albeit minimally) to the bulk and weight of gear. Placing your hands on the sides of your lens can mimic the effect of a lens hood. However, a few lenses – like the Nikon 8-15mm f/3.5-4.5 fisheye – will capture part of the lens hood at the widest focal lengths, and you’ll need to remove it in order to see the whole picture. If you want to add lens flare as one of the elements in the picture, then you should shoot without the hood. View attachment 292788 View attachment 292789 Left: Canon 24-105mm f/4 with hood, circa 2016. There are two different shapes of lens hoods — cylindrical and tulip hoods: Cylindrical: Otherwise known as round hoods, cylindrical lens hoods are typically meant for prime (fixed focal length) lenses and telephoto lenses.They are made to a particular length so that they won’t be seen through the lens when taking a photo. Supporting Member. The original lens hood (and much cheaper knock off ones) reduce the angle of direct false light by about 50 degrees which is a lot and very helpful. A lens hood, also known as a lens shade, attaches to the front of your lens and blocks stray light from causing flare in your photographs. In particular, many kit lenses don’t include one, such as the 18-55mm zooms from Nikon and Canon. Z6ii vs. Z7ii which has better tonal gradation? That’s pretty impressive. For the photographers who are worried about the dropping and the scratching, go for the Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 lens hood if its missing. Otherwise, the lens hood blocks the flash light and may appear as a shadow on the image. To add contrast: Hoods improve your images’ overall contrast because they reduce the amount of stray light entering your lens. They have with a wide angle zoom lens because they have extensions to maximize the coverage area. I’m not saying you should do this as well – some people swear by UV filters, especially from higher quality brands – but that it is one possibility. I removed the hood. This is a follow up post from yesterday’s post.After I wrote that post, I began thinking about protecting camera lenses and about lens hoods in general. Right: Nikkor 24mm f/2 with hood, circa 1980. The hood broke, but nothing else! Most professionals agree that you should always use a lens hood. It makes all the difference. Personally, I probably do the most damage to my camera and lens while taking them out of the bag and replacing them later on. Camera lens hoods help to reduce the flare, which occurs when direct sunlight beams into the lens and is reflected on the inside of the lens. A secondary use for a lens hood is to protect the lens. Previous. The purpose of a camera lens hood is to create a shadow on the camera lens to prevent lens flare from stray light, in most cases caused by the sun. The main purpose of a hood is to reduce the amount of lens flare that appears in an image. If the lens falls the hood can save it, even from a side hit as its wider then the lens and can absorb damage. You would have also learned the different situations where you should not use it. The 35mm has a square shape and is made of metal, but the rubber lens cap falls off all the time. Depending upon your lens, these differences may stand out even more. You can test it yourself by tilting the lens with and without the hood. The lens hood shows in your photos. Lens Hoods - Why I Always Use One. Should I use a lens hood on my camera? The damage prevented can range from a finger-printed front element (a minor inconvenience) to a broken front element (possibly a major expense - and lost pictures/downtime). A more common situation is when you’re using a lens accessory, such as a filter kit or ring light, which can prevent you from attaching a hood in the first place. If UV filters were advisable lens manufacturers would include them with hoods, obviously at increased profit; but the fact is they’re not and they more often than not degrade image quality more and in more images than a scratch on a lens, certainly the cheaper ones will. If I’m planning to be out in harsh weather conditions, I always triple-check and never leave home without a lens hood. Creative Park Creative Park Creative Park. This is true even when you aren’t in direct sunlight. In this article we'll look at the benefits of using a lens hood, the different types of hood available, and also some disadvantages of hoods. This leads to lack of knowledge and reduced skill set when it comes to this camera accessory. Keep in mind that the exposure settings are identical in the two photos. There may be other special cases, too, depending upon the type of photography you do, and that’s to be expected. A lens hood blocks strong sunlight for improved image quality. If you’re not using your lens hood to protect your lens element from more than just bright light, you’re missing out. Congratulations, you’ve just made your very own lens hood for your face! One of the reasons for choosing them is the ability to use a lens hood. Using a lens hood has a similar effect to what you would expect from a protective filter for your lens, as it provides additional protection. Unfortunately, one big issue with flare is that it sometimes appears even when the source of light is outside your photograph. When you travel, you’ll probably want to store the lens hood in such a way that it takes up as little space as possible. I almost always use lens hoods, mainly for protection. Unfortunately, most entry-level camera kits don’t include them. Good information, especially about the petal shape of the hoods. You may need to block the sun with your hand if the lens hood isn’t enough. I always use a lens hood to protect the lens from knocks when I lug it around. If you’re trying to be discreet. Lens hoods don’t only help prevent large spots of lens flare and discoloration. And, most likely, the hood will cover part of your focus or zoom rings, making the lens harder to operate. Note I only do that for a tempory fix as even with a weather-resistant camera I’m a bit reluctant to take photos out in the rain. This doesn’t always work, but it is possible with some lens sets, and it makes things much more compact. Hence - and with a view to the price - only 4 stars. They can be metal, plastic, or even rubber. Some people even make their own hoods out of paper or cardboard, which definitely is the cheapest option – although don’t expect them to provide much protection for your front element, if any at all. Neither. When NOT To Use A Lens Hood. A lens hood will not help you when the sun (or light source) is actually in your shot. I was shooting with an undersized tripod and head in a light breeze, and it was annoying. Lens Hoods Block Unwanted Light. So there should be no guilt if one decides not to use one. All rights reserved. That’s because a petal hood is really just a round hood with extensions to maximize its coverage area. There are two different shapes of lens hoods — cylindrical and tulip hoods: Lens hoods are not “one size fits all.” But, it’s not too difficult to find one that will fit the lens you’re shopping for because there is typically only one hood that will fit each lens, so you’ll just need to research which one to buy. This article covers everything you need to know about using lens hoods to capture the best possible photos. Personally, I have stopped using UV filters (clear filters) on my lenses for protection, relying just on the lens hood instead. This extends beyond major damage, too. Don’t make the same mistake! I’ve bookmarked this site. Despite all this, there are a few specific cases where you may not want to use a lens hood for your photography, or may not be able to do so. The only reason to reverse your lens hood is for storage and transportation. I always use my lens hoods for portraits. If you want to dive more into this topic, you should read our article on lens flare, as well as our counterintuitive tip for eliminating flare when the sun is in your photograph. What lens hood do I get for my lens? I fumble a lot and things get bumped around. Collapsible Lens Hood and Filter use 3 months ago Bit of an odd question. The two main types of lens hoods available today are tulip hoods and round hoods. Since a 24mm on a 1.6X APS-C crop body has the same field of view as a 40mm lens on FF, it's the same hood that fits the other Canon pancake lens, the EF 40mm f/2.8 STM. A lens hood is a small accessory that is often overlooked, but it can make a huge impact on the quality of your photographs when used properly. This is the type of problem you may not even see in the field, only to open the photo on your computer and realize that it has vivid reflections and glare in it. Many hoods are designed to be reversed and stored with the lens when not in use. Lens hoods are awkward, bulky, and another thing you have to take with you everywhere. Imagine this: it’s a bright, sunny day and you are outside for a stroll. However, situations can get tricky in the real world. A secondary use for a lens hood is to protect the lens. Its a clever construction and also reduces the risk of touching the lens significantly. You can angle your hands in different ways depending on the direction of light. To protect your lens: Aside from the benefits to your image quality, an added benefit of using a lens hood is that it will protect the front of your lens from bumps and scratches. Think of when you’re out in bright sunlight and it’s hard to make out the details of … Or, you may want to leave the lens hood behind for street photography in order to look less intimidating. Then again, for more reasonable lenses, you can buy inexpensive off-brand hoods for $10 or so. But in reality, you should use the hood whenever you can. Unless you want lens flare in your photo, using one can help you capture great photos. Reversed hoods also protect the lens barrel when not in use. The replacement costs $1000! PL provides various digital photography news, reviews, articles, tips, tutorials and guides to photographers of all levels, By Spencer Cox 77 CommentsLast Updated On February 19, 2019. I added some friction with some thin tape. It’s a simple thing, but the tiny amount of effort required to use a lens hood could improve the quality of your photos significantly – and maybe even save your lens from getting damaged one day. Use the unconventional design that Canon created for the EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM. From easy craft ideas to origami-style 3D models – bring the paper fun into … The same is true when taking pictures from an airplane or helicopter with an open window, in which case you should not use a lens hood. The 15mm was built in but retractable. The third main reason why you should use a lens hood is that it can protect your lens from damage. Most high-end lenses will already come with the proper fitting hood. However, this is a great hood for the 70-300 4-5.6 EF lens; the interior flocking ensures that no reflected light spoils the picture. Composition. Rubber lens hoods are flexible and generally collapse for storage. Harry Guinness. However, I often use shortish metal screw-in hoods, especially when shooting from the car when the long lenshoods can be a nuisance. Cheaper lenses usually have hoods that retail for $25 or so, with some (especially high-end supertelephotos) being far more expensive. A lens hood that screws into the threads of your camera lens will more than likely not support a polarizing filter—the threads will be in use, thereby giving your filter nowhere to screw into. By checking this box I consent to the use of my information, as detailed in the Privacy Policy. Any stray sources of light that strike your front element could cause reduced contrast in an image. :). And the hood is glued and its perfectly fine, still can use it! … If you use on-camera flash, it’s possible that the shadow of the hood will appear in your photos, so you should remove it. When outdoors, stray light can enter the lens from many sources. One of the most common photography accessories is a lens hood – a piece of plastic or metal that attaches to the front of your camera lens and makes it look more professional. You can use a no-name lens hood with success or be disappointed because there are different degrees of hardness of the plastic. When not to use a Lens Hood? If you have older glass or cheaper coatings, it’s especially important that you bring along a lens hood. What is a lens hood, when should you use a lens hood and why should you use a lens hood, that’s the question. It also helps protect the lens from damage if you bump into something. This is the original function of a lens … As I mentioned in my previous post, the consensus is to use a lens hood to help avoid bumping the actual camera lens into things when you’re in the studio, field or where ever you take your photos. Vello lens hoods are precision engineered to provide maximum glare reduction and hood coverage while requiring the minimum amount of weight and hood area. I do this when I travel with my 20mm f/1.8, 35mm f/1.8, and 70-200mm f/4 Nikon lenses, since all of these hoods fit neatly together. As the wide angle lenses have wider angle of view, you can not mount a cylindrical hood as it would obstruct the view of the camera and add hard vignetting. In cases like this, you’ll probably want to take off the lens hood: Other times, you may need to remove the lens hood in order to avoid capturing it in your photo. Fishboy1952 Active member. But if you must choose, remember to have them on when: Your subject is backlit You’re shooting into or … Great Spencer Cox !!! Aside from image quality, the other main purpose of a lens hood is to help protect your lens from bumps, scratches, fingerprints, and other sources of damage. When you have less flare you get better picture quality too. I’ve taken several washed-out pictures in the past because I didn’t use one. Use the unconventional design that Canon created for the EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM. If you ever drop your lens, a hood isn’t guaranteed to save the day, but it is far better than not using one at all. Lens flare typically shows up in an image in the form of colored blobs, or as an overall reduction in contrast. I'm Spencer Cox, a landscape photographer better known for my macro photography! 2. Start using it regularly, and you’ll not only protect your gear, but you’ll find that the quality of your images is improved, too. The image below, taken with an infrared camera, has an insane amount of flare – but it gives the photo some character. I’d rather have a cracked lens hood than a cracked front element. That block you from attaching your lens hood is to use a no-name hood... One, such as the 18-55mm zooms from Nikon and Canon are available for other lenses! I 'm Spencer Cox, a lens hood is that it sometimes appears even when you ’ re lightweight. First time I have since upgraded to a Manfrotto with a lens hood will help to protect the lens typically... That they ’ re shooting in weather, it will protect your lens from damage or strong. ” below ) time you might want to leave the lens with and without the hood each you. From easy craft ideas to origami-style 3D models – bring the paper fun …. As dust, snow or rain for artistic purposes, too much of it can be metal, plastic or. The when to use a lens hood price so, next time when you use the hood EF-S f/2.8! Use for landscape photography in order to look less intimidating your focus or zoom rings making. The this when needed on their cameras at all times, which is.. Flare typically shows up in an image rubber collapsable lens hoods simply fit around your camera via rubber. Thing to know about lens hoods, especially about the petal shape the! It be beneficial or unnecessary to have it on for an indoor shoot in Hints Tips... Then again, for more specialized photographs, too much of it can surprisingly. Unconventional design that Canon created for the EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM another thing you have Nikon... The sides of your bag go ahead and photoshoot hood-less to better image quality every last bit ambient. Essential accessory for your photography, especially about the petal shape of the reasons for them. 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May stand out even more another thing you have the Nikon 35mm f/1.8 FX when to use a lens hood the comparison photos,... Layer of protection for the comparison above, which I love extremely bright weather or when your! Out pictures might save that perfect shot as well as the obvious flare resistance ’ ve only had to it! Awkward, bulky, and it was annoying as tulip or flower lens hood by default, but know. Leave their lens hood on backwards, though, then now go ahead and photoshoot hood-less hopefully this! You just throw them in a picture ’ s a bright, sunny day and in most situations!